29 Responses to “Translating TIME Propaganda”

1. kapa nyanyi on August 4th, 2007 4:27 pm

   who are you? God? to insult people, better if you go and find your indian grand-grands…to feel yourself home…otherwise just be very-very quiet…………..and shame on you

2. Luke on August 4th, 2007 5:10 pm

   Kraft? It does not sound Indian to me.. I wonder if he has even seen an immigrant once lol.. Have you people noticed usually the people spewing hate are from down south? You know redneck country Carolinas, Alabama, Virginias… If you hear them say you know yall.. Thats a sign of a bigot..Hey Kraft i hope you suffer as much in your pathetic life as the Gomez brothers have

3. Michael Kraft on August 4th, 2007 8:27 pm

   Actually my family is Hispanic and bilingual, but I put being American first.

   My childrens first words were in spanish, but it wont define them or mean they should line up like sheep to support criminals.

   Funny how you insult native southerners in a way to show others as biggots.

   So you call me a bigot then say all southerners are hicks?

   If the whole country put America first we wouldnt even be discussing Amnesty for 15 million criminals.

   I am sure these are great kids, I have no problem with them. It’s Time magazine and the obvious agenda in this sort of article that is anti-american.

   How do they make enforcing laws seem so racist and awful?

   How is it the person here illegally is the victim?

   Perhaps they should discuss this with their parents, who put them in this situation.

   They may be victims, but they are victims of their parents crime, not mine or yours.

   If I get a speeding ticket, I am expected to pay it because part of living in the US is followign the laws.

   Ive gotten them and paid them.

   I didn’t organize a march and call others bigots for my own inability to follow the rules.

4. Michael Kraft on August 4th, 2007 8:33 pm

   It amazes me how half the world values US citizenship so much and desires it so bad, but the American left doesnt thinks its worth anything and wants to just give it away?

   The standard of living is favorable here because we have laws, rules and a pretty good track record of respecting them.

5. Michael Kraft on August 4th, 2007 8:36 pm

   “I wonder if he has even seen an immigrant once”

   Both my parents, my wife, her parents, her brother, sister and my children godparents.

   All immigrants in the last 5 years, all from spanish speaking nations, all legal, all waited in lines to do it right.

   But hey, nice try on the bigot card luke.

6. Kate Green on August 5th, 2007 1:22 am

   “Columbia has fast become one of the top tourism stops in the region and has a very healthy democracy as compared to other nations of the region, having much improved economy and lower crime under US ally Alvaro Uribe.”

   Wow.. Can you please site your sources? Columbia has had a ongoing civil war for more than 40 years. Here is some ACCURATE information about the nation of which you refer to.
   Crime See also: Security issues in Colombia and Human rights in Colombia

   Colombia has become notorious for its illicit drug production, kidnappings, and murder rate. In the 1990s, it became the world’s largest producer of cocaine and coca derivatives.[16] Cultivation of coca in 2000 was estimated at 402,782 acres (163,300 hectares).[17]

   For some time Colombia also had the highest murder rate in the world at 62 murders per 100,000 people.[16] However, it has descended in recent years to 39 murders per 100,000 people, bringing it down in the List of countries by murder rate below the levels of South Africa. Over 90 percent of the murdered are males. Regions like Putumayo, Guaviare and Arauca remain at 100 or more murders per 100,000 inhabitants in 2005. Neighbouring Venezuela, meanwhile, has seen a rise from 13 in 1991 to 33 murders per 100,000 inhabitants in 2005 and Ecuador has gone from 11 in 1991 to 18 in 2004.

   Between 1992 and 1999 a total of 5,181 kidnappings, two-thirds of the world’s reported, occurred in Colombia.[16] In the year 2005, 800 kidnappings were reported, (73% less than in 2002) of which 35% were rescued in the same year. In 2005, 18,960 vehicles were stolen (37% less than in 2002) and 18,111 persons were murdered (38% less than in 2002).[18]

   Coca cultivation is a major illegal business in Colombia. In several rural regions, large tracts of land have been used for coca plant cultivation. According to U.S. figures, in 2004 an estimated 281,947 acres (114,100 hectares) of land were used to grow the plant, and the nation had a producing potential of 430,000 metric tons of cocaine per year.[10] According to a United Nations Office on Drugs and Crime survey, coca cultivation was estimated at 212,511 acres (86,000 hectares) in December 2006.[17]

   In the year of 2006 the Colombian government had destroyed around 180,387 acres (73,000 hectares) beating all records in coca plant destruction. The Colombian government now plans to destroy around 123,553 acres (50,000 hectares) of coca plants in 2007 and they claim there will be only around 49,421 acres (20,000 hectares) left, which they claim will be destroyed in 2008.[19] While Colombian efforts to eradicate the coca plant have displaced production, they have not diminished the number of acres on which the crop is harvested.[20] This disputes the Colombian claim that coca will be eradicated in 2008. (Wikipedia - Colombia).

   the stranger who resides with you shall be to you as one of your citizens; you shall love him as yourself. (Leviticus 19:33)

7. Mandy on August 5th, 2007 1:32 am

   Mr. Kraft,I think you make a good point and I don’t think you are a bigot, maybe a little passionate in your view but who isn’t. let me ask you though, why is it that everytime I hear an argument it always starts with people like you saying ( people that oppose immigrants) off by talking about taxes. come on now it is not always about money, it is about doing the right thing. if it is about taxes then maybe you should argue that all the prisoners should be shot so the public doesn’t have to pay for their food or anything else for them to live in a jail and not contribute anything to society. where as Juan could be a valuable asset.

   while we are on the subject of criminals and laws, what happened to our American Laws that you pride yourself so much on when it comes to criminals like Mel Gibson, Paris Hilton, Lindsey Lohan, President Clinton, OJ Simpson, pack man jones, mike vick ( he will walk scotch free, i guarantee that). these people are free to do what they want after what they did while other American are rotting in jail for doing the same thing. why don’t you write an article on why they should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law just like you are saying the illegal immigrants should be.

   while you are at it please read this article, http://www.eit.ntnu.no/Dokumenter%20fra%20koferansen/Creativity%20Class.pdf

8. Jerry on August 5th, 2007 1:51 am

   Isn’t it funny how all these Conservative Bastards talk about how much it cost the U.S people with illegals living here in the U.S. Well, Let me tell you about the Billions and Trillions of Dollars we are wasting on this Damn War in which The Republican President and all these Republicans thought we should go to war to find “weapons of mass destruction”. Why are we at WAR? Answer=Money!!
   If this country would of secure its borders,ports, airports then we wouldn’t be in this situation, but now we have to face reality.
   We are not a Country that will deport all these people, it wasn’t there fault it was ours for not doing our part and voting for your Republican party to run Congress for so many years. Now, when it comes to legalization for these people, the word “Amnesty” comes to Very Headline. This is the word that Republicans put out to the American public to put hate towards these “illegals”.

   Now, when it come to the bright, smart, and innocent children of these “illegals” Conservatives just don’t give a damn and say it’s the parents fault they brought their kids. Well, we might need those bright,smart, gifted kids because we seem to have “C average” Congress members in the House and the Senate. If Congress was so smart we wouldn’t have to done with this issue.

   I say they should stay, but no citizenship for them or parents, just residency for the Students and kids that join our army forces.
   Thank You.
   PS I read the Times article
   I enjoyed it.

9. Tom on August 5th, 2007 2:56 am

   kapa nyanyi and Luke, The Bleeding hearts club come out with their fangs out and their razor sharp nails throwing the, lame, this is getting so boring, race card while at the same time spewing hypocritical racial slurs. You open borders liberals slay me.

   Everything he said was exactly true. Tell me in a country founded on the rule of law, which other laws are you willing not to follow to suit your anti American radical left agenda?

   Your limitless and indiscriminate use of throwing the race card against anyone that is against illegal immigration and in favor of upholding the rule of law has dulled your blade to the point that it does not even cut anymore. Blather on idiots.

   BTW I’m a reformed Democrat, now Independent. Join the club.

10. Tom on August 5th, 2007 3:13 am

    Jerry (The Bleeding Heart “Bastard”)said…

    “I say they should stay, but no citizenship for them or parents, just residency for the Students and kids that join our army forces.
    Thank You.
    PS I read the Times article
    I enjoyed it.”

    They will never accept being a permanent “second class citizen,” that is called a “guest worker” and that’s a no no to most open borders fanatics. Even if they are seasonal and should go home when not working, you know they won’t. The guest worker program will be a huge disaster, Who is going to stop them from staying once their visa has expired? Our lame government?

    We agree on one thing. If any illegal alien joins the service, then I believe that is a reason to grant them citizenship. Whether it is an act of desperation to become a citizen or true patriotism, we will never know. That act deserves recognition.

    But of course you enjoyed Time magazine article. Time is no where near reporting neutral journalism. They are flamingly liberal. All bleeding hearts who care more about the welfare of foreigners over there fellow American citizens are bleeding heart “bastards” just like you. Enjoy the company.

11. Michael Kraft on August 5th, 2007 1:17 pm

    Nice jerry, Immigration laws made in 1986 have nothing to do with the current war in Iraq.

    You should stick to the issue of enforcing laws.

    Why do libs want amnesty = Votes

    So dont try and deflect the issue of ignoring laws to help create a class and race war of new liberal voters.

    Enforcing the laws is not racist it is what makes us and keeps us a first world nation.

    Everytime an article gets online about immigration the pro-illegal response is to blame the war or call it racism.

    Not once has anyone evry provided a single reason why laws should be changed for illegal immigrants.

    How does it benefit Americans?

    Which is the only people government is in place to serve….the people of this nation.

12. Michael Kraft on August 5th, 2007 4:05 pm

    Kate, my source if from reletives living across the border In Venezuela, where industry and immigrants are streaming across to Columbia to set up shop in an actual Democracy.

    “Uribe’s most important accomplishments have been in security. The army, with 100,000 more troops than it had four years ago - close to a one-third increase - has taken back towns and roads once under the control of the Revolutionary Armed Forces of Colombia, the largest rebel group. When Uribe took office, nearly one-fifth of Colombia’s towns had no police or army presence and kidnappings were out of control”

    Your cut/paste is all about drug quantities and not crime. During his time in office thousands of would be militants have surrendered their guns to the government for amnesty and peace.

    The only stat about acts of crime in your post is:
    “However, it has descended in recent years to 39 murders per 100,000 people, ”

    Which shows the crime down 50%, while the rising leftist-communist nations like Venezuela and Ecuador show huge spikes in crime. I assure you the figures there are not true and much higher than shown as well.

    So to show it on par with these other countries is to show it 50% better and surrounding neighbors (picking up the cocaine trade) trending towards worse.

    Columbia has also become one of the top destinations of those wishing to escape venezuela’s decline. Sorry if my sources are first hand accounts for this and relatives so i cant source them.

    But again your own post shows murder down 45% in “recent years”. Down to a level on par with most of south america.

    Lastly, This doesnt change the fact that this is about laws here in the US.

    All of central america has law and corruption issues, doesnt mean the answer is let them all move here.

    We cannot have a case by case trial for 15 million illegals because they all produce a “sob story”.

    They sound like great kids, but just ignoring the laws is not a good precedent to set with the entire world jumping our fences.

    Thanks for your comments, best regards.

13. Michael Kraft on August 5th, 2007 4:16 pm

    Mandy, I think your comment is fair and perfectly down the middle in good sense.

    Sorry if I get heated, you are right about that. In the 5 years since helping my wifes parents and sister join us here from South America as legal residents, they have had there ID’s stolen twice already by hispanic illegals because of their latino last names.

    It took months to get the COLLECTION for DIRECT TV off his credit report the illegals put there. You wont see my inlaws at any La raza marches.
    (It was for “expanded language spanish package service”)

    So If I have had enough, lets remember who is the criminal here. :)

    I would hope that all those you named got the full extent of the law brought down on them. As I keep saying its about law and not anything else.

    Lib responses are to try and make it about race, but thats because there is no common sense defense for “breaking laws”.

    All those people you named did end up on TV and get portrayed as WRONG and unlawful in their actions.

    This is what TIME wont do to Illegals isnt it.

    Where int he article does it say, ‘the Brothers “who broke US laws”‘…

    It doesnt.

    None of those you named are called “undocumented non-innocents”, they are all called ‘drunk drivers’ and ‘animal rights violaters’.

    If we called Illegal ..”Illegal” there would be no defense for amnesty.

    I also didnt see anyone trying to paint PETA as racist for protesting Vick, or the LAPD as nazis or Fascists for harassing mel Gibson.

    The constant portrayal that illegals are the victims is just plain wrong. i am not entitled to benefits and rights in Mexico or Honduras or ireland….so why are they entitled to the services and money of Americans?

14. Michael Kraft on August 5th, 2007 4:19 pm

    “If any illegal alien joins the service, then I believe that is a reason to grant them citizenship.”

    I 100% agree with this too.

    I think that proves respect for the US in a way that nothing else can.

    BUT this will never be proposed, because La RAZA will say we are using Hispanics to die for us…etc etc.

    BUT, I would be honored to neighbor with anyone from anywhere that decides to serve in the US military or guard. I would give them my SS card if I could.

15. Michael Kraft on August 5th, 2007 4:40 pm

    In the end it comes down to this.

    The Current US laws and the VAST majority or Americans agree with my basic view on amnesty for anyone.

    So why is this even an issue? Why is this even open to discussion?

    whats the delay on “enforce the laws”?

16. Winghunter on August 5th, 2007 7:12 pm

    When a vast majority of protesters used our flag to mask their faces and fly it upside down below the Mexican flag while chanting “reconquista”, it doesn’t allow any reasonable belief in these people to assimilate…which is everything.

    Numbers USA and The Heritage Foundation has a large volume of factual information that will enlighten anyone to what our country truly faces on this issue. Learn so you won’t be hoodwinked as the artists of spin are apparently everywhere…intentionally or not.

    Numbers USA
    http://www.numbersusa.com/interests/amnesty.html

    The Heritage Foundation
    http://www.heritage.org/Research/Immigration/

17. Wesley on August 5th, 2007 11:47 pm

    This will continue until Americans take back America. Or until Rich multi national corporations overpower Americans.
    Take action folks, no one else will.

18. Michael Flaherty on August 6th, 2007 7:11 pm

    I am a student very much in the same mold as Juan. We differ however, in that I was born in Ireland. There is a substantial Irish undocumented population, but the discourse on immigration is always predicated on, for better or for worse, Latinos. What that says about race as a factor in the immigration debate, I’ll leave up to you all to ponder.

    It seems as though one of the arguments against granting some form of status to undocumented students is that somehow all undocumented students come from families who don’t pay taxes. To that I say, that for the 20 years my parents and I have lived in this great country, my family has filed federal taxes using an ITIN number. In that sense, your argument that all undocumented students are somehow stealing from legal taxpayers is somewhat diminished.

    You also assert that Juan and his brother are criminals. Now I have never been to law school and am in no way claiming to be an expert, but I did take a few legal oriented courses in college where I learned that in our criminal courts, the mens rea, or criminal intent, is required for a conviction. If we uphold that standard in a criminal case, shouldn’t we hold that standard as well when we speak about these particular students? My parents brought me to the U.S. when I was 3, and I can tell you that there was no way I could have comprehended the magnitude of my parents’ actions. And I certainly could not have contributed to them. In a world where real criminals can plea bargain to receive a lesser sentence, it is the undocumented student that is vilified. Somehow that doesn’t make sense to me.

    I am hoping for the DREAM Act to pass so that I can enlist in the Marine Corps. I tried to enlist out of high school, but the recruiter told me that my status did not allow me to enlist.

    Most of us wish only to make a positive contribution to the U.S. I wish our intents were the focus and not the action of our parents. We’re all not the bad guys you claim we are.

19. Michael Kraft on August 6th, 2007 7:40 pm

    Michael, you make a well stated and intelligent post. Im glad people can disagree without it becoming a name calling match.

    As I have stated before I think anyone looking to serve the US in the military should get full citizenship status the moment they get honorably discharged.

    I think its the highest form of respect for our nation and wish you could serve the US as you wish too.

    Of my 3 closest childhoop friends 2 became marines and one air force, Its the most admirable of pursuits.

    I think there should be SET IN STONE exceptions, because we cannot grant status on pity sake.

    But in exchange for service, I would offer an illegal immigrant full citizenship, no exceptions.

    If the DREAM ACT becomes law through democratic means, then I wish you the best in the service. I wont have agreed with it, but as a conservative I respect the process.

    Until it does though, I dont think we can have a decent rule of law by making exceptions in many cases.

    These kids did NOTHING wrong, I agree with that. They should though understand that their parents did.

    Best of luck in your future, I hope you get the chance to serve with honor.

20. Michael Flaherty on August 6th, 2007 10:53 pm

    I appreciate your well wishes in regard to my pursuit of enlisting in our military.

    The last thing I would want to get into would be a name calling match. As someone who has been a target of some pretty despicable comments myself, I understand the power of words.

    I’ve thought about immigration issues from your perspective and I can honestly say that I can understand some of the angst among Americans. What troubles me is how that angst is conveyed and translated in some instances, particularly from those that infuse the debate with utter hate. And while I read your comments and note your frustration, I don’t get the vibe that you hate immigrants. Unfortunately, many on your side do not feel that they should practice discretion on how they convey their thoughts. Instead, many comments I read on blogs or articles are filled with “holier than thou” type comments tarnished with stains of hatred, pure hatred.

    I am not commenting to dramatically change people’s minds, but rather I hope that people would learn to not paint immigrants with such a broad brush. I believe that eventually, our nation will solve its immigration quagmire, but only if we learn to look at things objectively and not simply say all undocumented immigrants are bad this and horrible that.

21. Michael Kraft on August 7th, 2007 1:41 am

    You are right, I cant argue with that. Its not the people, its the demands that anger Americans, most Americans want to help others, but want them to ask and respect our right to offer it.

    If a guest in my house asks for a Coke I give it and am happy to help, if they go in my kitchen and just take a coke, I think it rude and wont offer ever again.

    It may sound a bit high-schoolish, but I think it is what fuels the hate.

    I also am an from an Immigrant family, My parents both legal. My wifes family and all of our extended family from south america and spanish speaking. I worked hard to get everyone here with me, 5 years of the process.

    2 years in ESL classes lawyers, INS lines….a long process that they cherish the result of.
    They are all great Americans, because they love being just that.

    We are not wealthy, but we understood the process. My inlaws had some identity theft from illegals (twice in 5 years), and their wages are greatly depressed by the illegals here in Charlotte that they get LUMPED in with.

    Its really not unwarranted frustration.

    Its compounded by the fact that we worked hard to do it right, and the government mocks us by not making that seem worth the effort.

    We value what we worked towards, and hate to see it devalued or “stolen” when we paid the price to get it right.

    Whatever the case, I appreciate your tactful nature and your desire to do right.

    I truly wish you the best.

22. Michael Kraft on August 7th, 2007 1:46 am

    If you were in Charlotte, Id have you over for the next World Cup, I understand your country takes that pretty serious.

    Its always like a UN meeting here when the World cup rolls around.

23. Michael Flaherty on August 7th, 2007 3:02 pm

    “If you were in Charlotte, Id have you over for the next World Cup, I understand your country takes that pretty serious.”

    Indeed. My father was going crazy in ‘02 when Ireland made the Round of 16. I root for the U.S. whenever the World cup rolls around, though I’ve never been much of a soccer fan. I’m more of a baseball/football guy.

24. Wesley on August 9th, 2007 11:22 pm

    Lots of folks would like a free American paid for education. Some are Americans yet cannot afford it.

25. Michael Kraft on August 9th, 2007 11:47 pm

    I grew up on Soccer, gave it up around 16. When in Miami we had fans for brazil, Argentina, Korea, Germany and Italy in the same room for most games, 4 seperate languages as well.

    It was like sportscenter espanol meets the UNited Nations.

    I prefer ‘Futbol American’, or NFL Football personaly, but world cup has a unique sort of “olympics” appeal to it.

26. Michael Flaherty on August 10th, 2007 12:03 pm

    Wesley, I understand your point. I know many Americans are having problems sending their kids to college. But as I’ve said, it seems as though the crux of the argument against any benefits for illegal immigrants is the misconception that none of them pay taxes, and are thus “piggybacking” off of the American educational system. As I’ve said, my family has paid federal taxes for 20 years using an ITIN provided by the IRS. That’s the thing about the IRS, they don’t care if you are undocumented as long as you fork over $$$ each year. And to that end, we have fully complied. I know that we are not the only ones who use the ITIN. Indeed, many undocumented immigrants pay taxes using the ITIN, as well as state and municipal property taxes and of course, the ubiquitous sales tax.

    And I can tell you that when I went to college, I paid out-of-state tuition for a state that I lived in virtually my entire life, despite my parents having been faithful in paying said state taxes. I didn’t receive any financial aid whatsoever, and all the money I used for tuition was accumulated through savings and taking up extra jobs. I don’t mention these things to paint myself as some kind of hero, because I know that there are many hardworking people across the land. As I’ve said, I’m very cognizant of the concerns that the general public has to immigration reform. It is my hope that we can break down barriers of hate and misunderstanding and expand our discussion on immigration to talk about those immigrants that are truly trying to make a contribution to our country.

    Michael, I understand your point regarding immigrating the right way. Despite having filed immigration papers over a decade ago, our petition was only approved just recently, due largely in part to the ineptitude of our bumbling lawyer and utter incompetence of the USCIS. I wished that the recent national discourse on illegal immigration would have included those illegal immigrants that are trying to immigrate through proper channels, but sadly it wasn’t the case.

    I thoroughly enjoy having rational discussions, albeit via the internet, on immigration. It is an aspect of my life that has impacted me greatly, and I wish to share my experiences in the hope that it my break down some barriers.

27. Michael Kraft on August 10th, 2007 5:17 pm

    “Indeed, many undocumented immigrants pay taxes using the ITIN, as well as state and municipal property taxes and of course, the ubiquitous sales tax.”

    I think wed be kidding ourselves if we pretend that “many” means any significant percentage.

    Also keep in mind that since most come to live in our lowerclass and with kids….if not 3-4, this means they get tax returns anyway.

    Your example would be those who do pay taxes….likely a small percentage….

    AND of that small percentage how many actually make 40K plus to owe anything anyway?

    If we are to guess that this comes down to maybe 500,000 out of 18 million? at the very most?

    And not 18,000,000 with private health care or private schooling, but 18,000,000 of which most are lower class and use a great amount of social services on average.

    I have a handful of friend that are illegals or children of illegals since we run in hispanic circles, but this argument that they “do pay taxes” is such a small drop in a giant vacuam.

    also, Its like a bank robber using his “good manners” as a defense in court, it really doesnt excuse the crime itself.

    My wife is only in the country 4 years from south America when we had our first child, we were elidgible for medicaid and wic at the time.

    We didnt qualify because in North Carolina you need to be in the country for 5 years
    EVEN IF YOU ARE LEGAL as she is.

    We had a social #,legal statis and work permission card, but couldnt get any services.

    Thousands of dollars in bills this cost us.

    In California they give free government money to anyone who can jump a fence.

    Money that could be used for legal Americans like my wife was.

    Myers Park Hospital in Charlotte is wall to wall illegals all getting free healthcare because they have been here illegally for more than 5 years.

    Last visit there years ago I counted 19 spanish speakers out of 23 people in the prenatal wating room.

    I have no room left for sympathy after paying all those colections and bills.

28. Michael Flaherty on August 10th, 2007 5:50 pm

    I’m sorry that your wife did not qualify for medicaid, and like you, I firmly believe that states should practice better discretion in determining who should or should not qualify for state aid.

    “If we are to guess that this comes down to maybe 500,000 out of 18 million?”

    But my question is how come these so-called “500,000″ are never mentioned? Perhaps people will say that that percentage is too insignificant to speak about; that it is all to convenient to lump everyone together. My family does not fit the stereotype of an illegal immigrant family. Its frustrating because people always assume that illegal immigrants can’t assimilate and refuse to speak English. I’m here. My family’s combined earnings are over 40k, and we have private health insurance. We don’t speak Spanish like all those that you mentioned in your example.

    Listen, we’ll have our views and that’s what’s so great about the U.S.; we can talk about things freely. I was a little hesitant to post here because usually people drown me out when I post on articles regarding immigration. But at any rate, thank you again for your best wishes. Hopefully, next time I post on one of your articles, I’ll be doing so as a Marine : )

29. Michael Kraft on August 10th, 2007 6:35 pm

    haha. i would never bad mouth someone who brings a calm viewpoint.

    I don’t even disagree with you so much.

    I have said service in the military should earn you full citizen status.

    I would also say anyone that can prove perfect tax history and no felony history for 5+ years should be offered legal status.

    They have also proven the desire to follow the rules and be respectful.

    I think in the end its not about the people who are illegal, but the agenda of those who only want them for their votes.

    This is why there is not compromise in Congress, they want them all to stay because its about votes and money from farmers, restaurant unions, media marketing, MTV3, Food packaging, lower class retailers.

    It has never been about the people involved on the liberal side, its been about recruiting voters.

    I saw ( and limbaugh discussed) an article about immigrants voting registration

    First generation immigrants are 77% democrats, second generation 64% and third generation 55%. (quoted best i remember from today)

    The more the become able to do things for themselves the more they realize they dont need the socialist democratic approach to be successful.

    Low income immigrants once legalized become dem voters.

    So Americans will suffer the cost at the expense of a party wanting to stay in power.

    Americans are ready to compromise, but it needs to be on OUR TERMS.

    Americans hold all the cards, illegals have nothing to offer we cant get ourselves.

    Most americans would comproise with a percentage of good honest cases, but wont listen to demands.

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